Talk:Super Saiyan Rosé
Power of this transformation I am wondering how powerful this transformation is. People are saying this transformation is as powerful as the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan transformation, and I feel as if thats taking it a bit far. And if it really does surpass the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan transformation, I would really really like to see Goku and Goku Black duke it out. TNTDiscoCisco (talk) 16:36, August 8, 2016 (UTC) I believe Super Saiyan Rose is probably going to be just as powerful as Super Saiyan Blue. A future episode states that Goku and Black will fight each other (Goku will be in SSJB, Black will be in SSJR) - directly stating it will be a very intense fight. I doubt it's not in god level, as it appears to be it will. bredGojiran103/b/c 00:29, August 9, 2016 (UTC)Gojiran103 Delete Page The wiki should wait for future episodes to come out before we put some thang like this here Asuma 000 (talk) 23:35, August 20, 2016 (UTC) Why is it called ''Super Saiyan Rose ''in the first place? Can't the name be cooler? Pink is another name. Please note that Super Saiyan Pink is an ALTERNATE name, so please do not change that in the alternate names section of the page. JamariT2000 (talk) 16:55, August 21, 2016 (UTC) Super Saiyan Pink isn't an official name 16:57, August 21, 2016 (UTC) It doesn't have to be official to be an alternate term used to refer to the transformation. Why don't you understand? JamariT2000 (talk) 16:59, August 21, 2016 (UTC) That section is used to list all official alternate names, if that's the case Goku Black's page should be list Evil Goku as an alternate name, it isn't used to list all names that the fans says 17:02, August 21, 2016 (UTC) Alright, say this. For the Super Saiyan Third Grade page, it has an alternate name called Ultra Super Saiyan. But I don't recall that name being used in the anime, manga, or any games. However...it's still on that list, which must mean its a name that came from the fans of Dragon Ball. If I am wrong, please tell a time where Ultra Super Saiyan was used to refer to that form. JamariT2000 (talk) 17:10, August 21, 2016 (UTC) :Indeed, that is not an official name and probably shouldn't be included in the Third Grade SSJ page. See also this discussion on that article's talk page. — Zero-ELEC (talk) 21:57, August 21, 2016 (UTC) Alright, I see now. I thought fan names were accepted as alternate names for transformation. Thanks for pointing that out, or else we'd have been going on forever. JamariT2000 (talk) 22:06, August 21, 2016 (UTC) Also I would like to add that numerous fans have referred to Super Saiyan Third Grade as Ultra Super Saiyan where as this form is new and only the fans in Japan and the ones who watch Super right now only know of this form and probably refer to it as Super Saiyan Pink. In this case, we should remove Ultra Super Saiyan as an alternate name from that page. It would confuse some people, as that is an official name for Super Saiyan 3. JamariT2000 (talk) 22:14, August 21, 2016 (UTC) No it would only confuse this generation of fans. Super Saiyan Third Grade was referred to as Ultra Super Saiyan by fans before Trunks even called SS3 that, and everyone who talks about the Super Saiyan forms and where fans from GT back know refer to SSTG as USS or Super 2 and SS3 as that. I see, so the same must go for Super Saiyan Second Grade being referred as Ascended Super Saiyan, when that's for Super Saiyan 2. JamariT2000 (talk) 22:28, August 21, 2016 (UTC) I agree that there is no need for the name Super Saiyan Pink to be added as an alternate name. It's not even very relevant as a fan term, as it was only used by fans for several weeks before the name Super Saiyan Rose was revealed.--Neffyarious (talk) 04:08, August 22, 2016 (UTC) Super Saiyan Rose in Xenoverse 2 I know Goku Black will be in Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 as a pre-order bonus, but does any know if he will have Super Saiyan Rose as a transformation? JamariT2000 (talk) 22:34, August 21, 2016 (U TC) It's yet to be confirmed if Black will have his Super Saiyan Rose transformation playable in Xenoverse 2. Although, since the game comes out in October, I think Black's Super Saiyan Rose form will be available. bredGojiran103/b/c 10:39, August 22, 2016 (UTC) Trivia "A black rose is generally seen as a symbol of death. It most likely has a link to Goku Black's transformation being called Super Saiyan Rosé. Aditionally, light pink is the negative color of light blue. In other words, Super Saiyan Rosé is the anti Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan." Ahem, I would really like to post this quote in the trivia. There, are you happy now? (Jim Green (talk) 21:30, August 28, 2016 (UTC)) :All three of these points are major speculation. Considering rosé has nothing to do with black roses, that first claim would be quite a stretch. Toriyama never hinted that there was any symbolism behind the form's color. Also, putting SSJB Goku in negative colors makes his hair look more reddish/orangish than light-pink. Even if it were the direct opposite color of blue, it wouldn't be enough to suggest SSJR being an anti-SSJB. ~~ IST O L E T H E π 23:04, August 29, 2016 (UTC) :I think the last two points are pretty big leaps, but the black rose part seems more reasonable since it's Black using the form. Just a DB fan trying his best (talk) 23:11, August 29, 2016 (UTC) ::Except the form isn't called Super Saiyan Rose, it's Rosé, which refers to the wine. Mentioning roses wouldn't be relevant. ~~ IST O L E T H E π 23:16, August 29, 2016 (UTC) ::U realize that rose is not only a flower but also a color right? Its a pink variant that has red in it. Hence the naming scheme as black said. Bob1200 (talk) 16:31, August 30, 2016 (UTC) I wouldn't consider it a big stretch. Toriyama is known for making a lot of puns in character and form names. Beerus, Whis, Vados, and Champa are all named after alcohol, so Rosé is probably a double pun on both alcohol and a Black Rose since it's a "god" form. The Rose/Blue problem is easily solved by inverting one of the form's colors on photoshop, here: I wouldn't call it perfect, there's a lot of green in there too, but I'd say it's close enough. -- 13:25, August 30, 2016 (UTC) :I wouldn't say that resembles blue at all. It clearly looks more like green. Even if it were blue, to assert that it is an "Anti-SSB" would be speculation. ~~ IST O L E T H E π 13:49, August 30, 2016 (UTC) Personally I think that Super Saiyan Rosé being the anti SSGSS/SSJB makes a lot of sence, since Goku Black is supposed to be Goku's polar opposite and all. Also take a look at this negative picture. It's not flawless, but I think it solves the Rose/Blue problem quite well. (Jim Green (talk) 14:17, August 30, 2016 (UTC)) :That's not even pink. That's deep red. All we know so far is that putting a negative filter on SSB makes it red, and putting one on SSR makes it green. You can't say "light pink is the negative color of light blue" considering that clearly isn't the case. Also, your first sentence about it making sense epitomizes what I mean about speculation. ~~ IST O L E T H E π 14:45, August 30, 2016 (UTC) :I have to agree with IStoleThePies, that's deep red, not pink, and putting a negative filter on Super Saiyan Rosé makes it green, look at the images you put in, Jim Green. (Haveorc (talk) 15:18, August 30, 2016 (UTC)) :Don't give me this perfectionist crap. Besides, both me and the guy who posted the negative Goku Black picture acknowledged that our pictures are NOT perfect invertions. First of all, Goku Blacks hair is not "green" it more of a light blueish-light greenish color. Secondly, Goku's hair is not "red" it has a redish-pink color with highlights being the EXACT same light pink as Goku Black's hair. As you know, Toriyama is famous for his name puns and clever details, I can bet my house on that he intentionally made Goku Black a black rose and a anti uper Saiyan Blue. (Jim Green (talk) 15:45, August 30, 2016 (UTC)) ::This has nothing to do with perfectionism. The colors are way off. Calling green "light blue" and calling red "light-pink" makes absolutely no sense, they aren't the same colors. Second, that's not a pun, that'd be symbolism. I personally doubt that he looked so deeply into the meaning behind the color "pink", but that doesn't even matter. It's not confirmed, it's mere speculation. ~~ IST O L E T H E π 15:48, August 30, 2016 (UTC) ::Do you want to do a poll on what hair color the reversed pictures have? :::We don't use polls for these things. ~~ IST O L E T H E π 18:21, August 30, 2016 (UTC) Let's continue this topic. Okay fine, Goku Black's inverted hair is more on green side, however, it does have some blue in it. On the other hand, the inverted SSGSS Goku's hair is clearly pinkish-red and not plain old red (not to mention the highlights are light pink). Knowing how Toriyama does things, there's no way this is a coincidenc e. Is there really any other explanation why Goku Black's hair is pink of all colors, other than him being an anti SSJB? :Yes. The color could have been arbitrary. Don't speculate on this, and I can't even see a tint of blue in Go ku Black's inverted hair. ~~ IST O L E T H E π 15:42, September 4, 2016 (UTC) :Seriously, no blue at all? Personally I see Goku Black's hair as light green but with a clear hint of light blue. But since we all view colors a slightly differently, I'm actually not that surprised. First we have the color Rosé, secondly we have the inverteted color of Rosé, which seems to be some sort of turquoise. : ::Do you see how dark that turquoise color is? Are you actually calling it "light blue"? Regardless, even if it were light blue, all you're doing is speculating on the meaning of the form's color. Speculating is taboo here. ~~ IST O L E T H E π 23:14, September 4, 2016 (UTC) Without speculating and theorizing, there's no way to discover unknown things. Just because you can't 100% prove something YET, doesn't mean you should go and just drop it forever. If my theory of Super Saiyan Rose being the anti Super Saiyan Blue becomes true, you are gonna feel a bit stupid, won't you? HOWEVER, nothings confirmed yet, I could be wrong.(Jim Green (talk) 06:47, September 5, 2016 (UTC)) :Speculation is not allowed on articles because of the fact that it could be wrong and without 100% prove their is no way to tell also the stuff in the trivia section is for stuff that falls into the category of stuff not a lot of people know. :This wiki is based on facts, not fan theories. If you want to theorize and speculate all day, go do it here. ~~ IST O L E T H E π 14:03, September 5, 2016 (UTC) :You wanna f***ing go?! Because my jimmies have been extremely rustled. (Jim Green (talk) 14:35, September 5, 2016 (UTC)) ::Give it up, dude. We're not putting speculation on here. ~~ IST O L E T H E π 14:45, September 5, 2016 (UTC) Merge? Going by the latest episode, SS Rose seems to be the same form as SS Blue, just named differently due to the differing color of the hair. Should the two pages be merged?--Neffyarious (talk) 10:32, August 29, 2016 (UTC) I disagree. In the usage and power section it reads this "While in this form, Black is stronger than Vegeta as a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan; While Vegeta managed to block Black's punch and assault him, Black was able to shrug off every single one of Vegeta's punches with no visible damage, and then proceeds to stab him with a sword made from his aura." and judging by the episode by paying close attention to his fight. No SSR Should stay as it is. You should wait for the next episodes before changing as he defeat Goku, and nearly killed him. Besides he called fighting Vegeta a warm-up.--Made up Character Wiki Admin Jack Jackson Page I ignore 11:28, August 29, 2016 (UTC) :I agree that we should wait longer before making a decision. Assuming that they're the same form with different hair so early is speculation, especially since it's being introduced to us as a new form with a new name that's vastly stronger. -- 14:04, August 29, 2016 (UTC) I disagree. There's no say whether it is the same thing as SSB, especially since it isn't really a Saiyan form (Black more than likely isn't a Saiyan). Hell, it might just be his equivalent of regular Super Saiyan, since we haven't seen him use SSJ. Unless we get direct confirmation, merging it with SSB would be speculation, no matter how similar the forms seem. ~~ IST O L E T H E π 22:59, August 29, 2016 (UTC) I think we should wait for more information on this. As this transformation will hopefully get more explanation as well as to who or what Goku Black is. As brought up on the talk page for SSGSS, it would cause hassle for both sides if we were to merge or change names now. Though I hopefully think this form should help settle the debate for this and the SSGSS page. --Narutofox94 (talk) 23:15, August 29, 2016 (UTC) Infobox Image I'm proposing that we change the main infobox image from this image to this image because the latter has higher quality, isn't at an awkward angle, and it includes more of Black's body, hair, and aura. Thoughts? -- 04:43, August 30, 2016 (UTC) :Personally I think the replacement image is too zoomed-out, whereas the original image is at least a close-up. ~~ IST O L E T H E π 04:55, August 30, 2016 (UTC) I agree that a close up image is ideal, but displaying the form's hair, aura, etc. at a better angle and higher quality is more important imo. Compared to the other page's images, this one isn't too zoomed out either. -- 05:00, August 30, 2016 (UTC) the agree with final chidori to change the image to the better one he provided and it's not zoomed out it provides a better look compared to the previous image being used now Nikon23 08:12, August 30, 2016 (UTC) The infobox image will remain as it is until there is a better image and that is not zoomed-out. Bargeta (talk) 19:27, August 30, 2016 (UTC) :You're not allowed to make decisions like that by yourself with no community consensus. The image provided is not zoomed out when compared to the other transformations. The current image doesn't show the all of the hair and it only shows a small bit of the aura. -- 19:45, August 30, 2016 (UTC) ::I agree with you on this FC. It should be changed--Made up Character Wiki Admin Jack Jackson Page I ignore 03:22, August 31, 2016 (UTC) Grammar . . . So apparently I got involved in an edit war involving my choice of using a colon when constructing the following sentence: "Black as a Super Saiyan Rosé proved to be physically superior and more durable than Super Saiyan Blue Goku or Vegeta: he is able to endure Vegeta's vicious assault with no evidence of injury or damage as well as compete with Goku in speed and hand-to-hand combat." It should be a colon instead of a semi-colon. If the two main clause are closely related, a semi-colon is indeed used; however, if the two clauses are not only related but the second main clause also directly explains or expands upon the first, then we go a step further and use a colon. Here are some quick screenshots of grammar websites that supports my claim that a colon can be used to introduce clauses that explain or expand upon a clause before: http://prntscr.com/cctxb9 http://prntscr.com/cctxii http://prntscr.com/cctyzy http://prntscr.com/cctzcd http://prntscr.com/cctzy2 ". . . he is able to endure Vegeta's vicious assault with no evidence of injury or damage as well as compete with Goku in speed and hand-to-hand combat," expands upon "Black as a Super Saiyan Rosé proved to be physically superior and more durable than Super Saiyan Blue Goku or Vegeta." A colon is more appropriate. Lightning Laxus (talk) 10:29, September 1, 2016 (UTC) :I'd go with a semicolon, it just seems awkward using a colon like this. ~~ IST O L E T H E π 11:33, September 1, 2016 (UTC) Leak What's going on here? Why is Jim Green's edit being undone? His trivia was correct. TyphlosionX (talk) 15:19, September 22, 2016 (UTC) It may be correct but does he or you really know how many people knows about that. If I remember correctly trivia is supposed to be something that not a lot of people knows about so therefore since we don't know how many people knows about SSR being leaked before it's debut we really can't say it is trivia. Now the other trivia I am pretty sure it falls into that category. Also I would like to know exactly where SSR was leaked because if it was leaked on the internet then it doesn't count as trivia since almost the entire world has access to it. Also I would like to add that he wasn't following site policy once a user's edit was been undone (disputed) it is better to bring it here and leave the article as it was before the user's edit was made so to avoid an edit war. TALK ABOUT NITPICKING. hell i didnt know it had been leaked.Dracoswizard (talk) 15:43, September 22, 2016 (UTC) Well it was leaked I even searched to kind of get an rough estimate of how many people know that it was leaked and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that it doesn't fall into the preferably little known category. Their are at least two Youtube videos about it and at least 5 to 6 pages about it on websites. One of the videos has 64,295 views. I wouldn't be so sure about it. Of course the hardcore Dragon Ball fans, like we who work at the Wiki, and people who watches Dragon Ball "Know-It-Alls" are gonna know it. But the average fan probably have no idea about it. So yeah, we shouldn't take things for granted. (Jim Green (talk) 15:52, September 22, 2016 (UTC)) leaks happen all the time and this situation is not different. That is not trivia Meshack (talk) 15:53, September 22, 2016 (UTC) Another video I found has over 2,000 views and there are others plus countless articles so it is safe to assume more people know about it then what falls into the preferably little known category. I agree with Meshack that this isn't trivia. I can literally sit here all day and provide sources for why it doesn't count as trivia. It is our job as a wiki to inform those who do not know this. This information has to be included in the article somewhere, and the Trivia section is the most appropriate place for it. Besides, the average fan who doesn't go on YouTube, Amazon, or Google News search and decides to come to this Wiki instead, would not know it. --TyphlosionX (talk) 16:03, September 22, 2016 (UTC) What about the average fans, people who only watch it ocasionally for fun? You know, the ones who comes to the Wiki to get advanced knowlege about the series? (Jim Green (talk) 16:05, September 22, 2016 (UTC)) When over 60,000 people have watched Youtube videos, read articles, or even come across the info on social media it is safe to say at least a million people know about it. Also any other info for the entire DB series that has happened since Internet has become what it is today is listed in the trivia section for what it deals with, so no the info should not be put it in the article. I am pretty sure they have even seen the info about it being leaked before it debuted. What are you and Typhlosion not getting about leaks happen all the time and just because something has been leaked doesn't mean it counts as trivia. So you're just ignoring people like Dracoswizard? What you're not getting, Goku20, is that those numbers do not apply to the entire fan base. It is our job to inform our readers, and we don't keep information from our readers. The info must be included somewhere, and the Trivia section is the best place for it. TyphlosionX (talk) 16:17, September 22, 2016 (UTC) What you are not getting is that no other leaks in the series have been put on the articles they deal with. Also no it shouldn't be in the article at all because besides me and Dracoswizard how many other fans don't about this. Two user's not knowing doesn't count for the entire fan base either, but the only reason I didn't know is because I don't give a damn about Super. You and Jim are speculating that the majority of the fan base don't know about this where I have proof that backs up what I am saying. The definition of Trivia: details, considerations, or pieces of information of little importance or value: "we fill our days with meaningless trivia" synonyms: minutiae So you're wrong, it is trivia. And I was right, the information best belongs in Trivia, because the information has little importance, just like all other trivia. What other leaks in the history of Dragon Ball have we had? Oh wait- I wouldn't know, because this Wiki doesn't mention any. So much for an encyclopedia. --TyphlosionX (talk) 16:28, September 22, 2016 (UTC) "Trivia should be accurate, interesting, not fundamental to the body of the article, and preferably little known. Character comparisons should be avoided." The MoS's stance on trivia and I can say that the leak to me is not interesting or is little known. The first one because of the world we live in nowadays if something doesn't get leaked the people over it are doing a damn good job trying to keep it that way. The second one well I provide sources for it not being the second. If you want to know what else was leaked do some research. An encyclopedia doesn't record leaks. An Encyclopedia can and should records leaks, because it is interesting information. Where does it say we can't include leaks? The answer: No where. As for the second: Key word here is preference. Not a necessity. TyphlosionX (talk) 16:42, September 22, 2016 (UTC) Leaks are not interesting because they are to common nowadays. They are never interesting because they screw up people's reactions to certain things, like when Black Siren was leaked for The Flash season 2 episode 22 or when the plot of a movie or tv show episode is leaked. That's your opinion. In my opinion, it's interesting that something so important, such as a primary villian of arc having their transformation, was leaked before it's official release. And I'm sure plenty of others would agree with me. TyphlosionX (talk) 17:04, September 22, 2016 (UTC) So Goku20, you must not like trailers or teasers at all? because they are just approved leaks. i enjoy finding out about leaks, one because it shows up coming material out of the intended content, and two it shows that no ones security is perfect.Dracoswizard (talk) 17:38, September 22, 2016 (UTC) It also shows how things might change in the final release. TyphlosionX (talk) 17:48, September 22, 2016 (UTC) I don't like trailers or teasers much but for different reasons then you think. The reason why I don't like them much is they at times over hype something or under hype something, I prefer the ones that do the latter but that is because under hyping something means that if it is really good then they will make more money. I would like to add that the difference between trailers/teasers and leaks are that trailers/teasers are one approved leaks but also controlled leaks where as leaks like Black Siren or some of the plot leaks I have seen videos for are not. Trailers/teasers when I watch them only hype me up for a movie, TV show, or video game but leaks don't do that they undermine everything the companies are doing and trying to do. I have seen some companies that have not had any leaks on stuff but some do. You two can like leaks all you want but that doesn't change the fact that more people need to chime in on this.